August 16, 2005

Just too much

Scenes from Gaza, taken from CAMERA's excellent blog:

Israeli soldiers weep with Jewish settler as Gaza synagogue is dismantled.

An Israeli soldier embraces Gaza settler evicted from home.

And to think that this is being done by Israelis, Jews. And all for nothing.
That a tragedy, what a complete and utter tragedy.

Posted by Maria at August 16, 2005 10:22 PM | TrackBacks
Comments & Trackbacks

There are many kinds of scenes from the evacuation, some are very different than these, but I think these images very much represent the evacuation.

From what I saw today on the BBC and CNN it seemed that they were mostly looking for sights of physical clashes between soldiers and settlers as if this was just another demonstration. However the deep meaning of the evacuation is in scenes such as these.

I can find a positive thing in all this. Well it's not a result of the evacuation, but I admit that only now I relize what amazing people we have in the army and police. We have all the reasons to be proud of them.

Posted by: Orly at August 17, 2005 12:01 PM Permalink

Well said Orly,
Though I am a bit surprised you relize it only now?
As we can all see the situation is making some sort of a split in our country but not as much as every one thought it would,
and like you said Orly,
I can also see some positive things in it,
(even though it's hard)
I hope that we will unite all of us,
Left, right, peace activists, settlers, arabs, and all the mix that we have here and relize that this is the only place we have and if we want it to be the place we all dream about,
we should all work together.


Posted by: Assaf at August 17, 2005 03:14 PM Permalink

It's unbelievable. I can't see any good in it now. I just have faith that it will make more sense in the future. Best I can do.

Also, Hi Maria! I replied to your comment on my blog here-

-and thanks for stopping by over there, it's good to meet you :)

Posted by: AliceinTexas at August 17, 2005 06:15 PM Permalink

Orly: Yeah it's obvious that the IDF soldiers aren't the ruthless machines international media cuts them out to be, but rather human beings who care about other people & their country..

Assaf: I am a bit shocked that you'd say something like "the disengement is 'blessed', and I am surprised you didn't see it had good points, and lets hope it will unite everyone'. I mean, saying that something bad is 'good' because it unites (even if it WOULD unite Jews and Arabs, which it won't, it will just cause Arabs to turn to their next target. Probably the West Bank). So I was saying, that even if it would unite, didn't the holocaust in a way 'unite' Jews as well? And was that a good thing?
I know that I might sound offensive to some people (I know that Orly cares about this issue, but I'm trying to demonstrate a point, not to offend anyone). I mean why should anyone take joy in sad events, just because they have some minor positive side effects?

Posted by: Maria at August 18, 2005 01:26 AM Permalink

Of course I had a general positive view of IDF soldiers and officers, but I am still amazed seeing what impossible situations they face and how nobly they react (some would say too nobly, but I think that generally this is the right way).

I guess I shouldn't answer instead of Assaf, but I think he has other reasons for supporting the Disengagement rather than because it may unite people. I really hope we can be more united but have no idea if it will happen.

Posted by: Orly at August 18, 2005 11:06 AM Permalink

Orly, again well said.
Your answer for me was in the spot.

But I will add some stuff if I may.
Maria, to see the sights of the Disengagment is really hurting, and by no means I think it is blessed because I like to see people taken away from their homes. My reasons for those thoughts are purly
security and budget reasons. (naturally we can argue about this as well, but this is not the issue now).

When I see the good in the bad, it does not mean I think some thing is just good.
Dont forget, I am pro geting out of the southern gaza settelments, so naturally I think its a good thing, with no conecction to the horible sights which are bad.

And what I said about the Arabs whom will unite with the rest of us, dont think I am naive,
and dont forget that Israel have many arabs whom are good citizens, not Palestinians!!!
I was talking about them, and only about them.

The bigest most dengarous problem Israel is facing
at the moment is not terror or antismetesim
(which are very serious problems on their own)
but that there is no agreement inside Israel on what to do next.
If we would be unite, we would have no problem and
we(Israel)would do what is good for us, with out
thinking about the western world and the arab world, we would be, I dare to say invincible.
But we are not unite at the moment,
We give names to people, I read sometimes respones
in the internet, and I am ashemed and sad in what
I read, what hate people have to other people,
just because one is a settler or a leftist or an arab and so on...
This is the thing that hurt me the most, to see
the hate in the people.
Untill we (Israelis) won't unite, we will not reach the end of this conflict.

Posted by: Assaf at August 18, 2005 02:30 PM Permalink


Posted by: Orly at August 19, 2005 08:54 AM Permalink

What's going on here?? I can't type the five letters c h r o n consecutively - I keep getting error messages! Really weird!

Anyway the above ***** stands for these letters. This is article which makes the Disengagement look somewhat reasonable.

I'm not at all sure the future will work the way Krauthammer says, but I think he has good analysis of the past and present.

Assaf: I feel JUST like you when reading talkbacks on the Web, but I want to believe that they don't represent Israelis, just like the cursing you hear on football games doesn't represent Israelis.

Posted by: Orly at August 19, 2005 08:59 AM Permalink

the things he say about the automated rocket respones is so right.
I think the same for years now, though I never tought about making it automatic,
And when I think about it, it is very doeble!
Israel have for years now sensors in the northen
border with Lebanon which recognize where the Hizballa rockets are lunched from in order to make
a presice counter attack.
Now all there is to it is make the rockets follow
these sensors automaticly.

An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth,
only 10 times more!

Posted by: Assaf at August 20, 2005 02:55 AM Permalink

Maria, one more thing I forgot to write,
though I am almost sure you think the same,
I can not be totaly sure.

The holocaust didn't just unite the jews, it did much more, it created Israel.
Naturally I dont think the holocaust was a good thing, like I wrote here in the past, almost all the family of my mother died in Awshwitz,
So was it a good thing? not at all.
Still it is hard for me to imagen Israel being created if a nightmare like the holocaust wouldn't have happend.

So even if this analoogy is not at all compareble
to the dissanganment plan, I hope that some thing good will rise out of it in the process of uniting our people.

Do I really believe it? I dont know, I hope so but I dont know.
We will wait and see, untill then I want to be positive because that the only thing I have at the moment.

Posted by: Assaf at August 20, 2005 03:15 PM Permalink